Black Lives Matter (BLM) is an international activist movement, originating in the African-American community, that campaigns against violence toward black people. BLM regularly organizes protests around the deaths of black people in killings by law enforcement officers, and broader issues of racial profiling, police brutality, and racial inequality in the United States criminal justice system.

In 2013, the movement began with the use of the hashtag #BlackLivesMatter on social media, after the acquittal of George Zimmerman in the shooting death of African-American teen Trayvon Martin. Black Lives Matter became nationally recognized for its street demonstrations following the 2014 deaths of two African Americans: Michael Brown, resulting in protests and unrest in Ferguson, and Eric Garner in New York City. More: en.wikipedia.org.

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User voted Positive.
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Jul 12, 2016

Black Lives Matter, by and large, has been a peaceful movement that has raised serious issues that just weren't being acknowledged prior to their work.

Dave Chappelle had a bit about police brutality in his comedy special, "Killing Them Softly", focusing on how much white blindness there was on the issue. That was back in 2000. The Rodney King beating was in March 3, 1991. The Wire was discussing police brutality issues in the context of Baltimore back in 2002. When I was in high school and college, police brutality issues got raised by politically-minded people on the left wing.

The black community has dealt with a toxic and moronic war on drugs, the devastation to black communities as a result of neo-liberal investor's rights globalization, and too many police departments having a siege mentality for decades.

None of it broke into the mainstream or got conservative networks like FOX to even talk about the issue until #BlackLivesMatter.

Even if the only legacy of the movement is that a discussion about the proper role of the police enters the mainstream and remains there, that will be a colossal victory, and one that anyone that is part of that movement can be proud of.

But, of course, there is no reason to believe that #BlackLivesMatter won't accomplish major objectives beyond that already-titanic success. We've already been moving toward legalization of marijuana and a scaling back of the war on drugs, and #BLM arrived at just the right time to push that forward even further. And many police departments are stepping up and recognizing that they need to do something about bias in policing. While Michelle Alexander's recent AlterNet analysis is an appropriate bit of perspective, I disagree strongly with her that we won't see huge improvements if law enforcement at a national level takes the challenge of community policing, bias training, sensitivity to the diverse communities they serve, and a real ethos of community improvement to heart. While it's true that such institutional measures can only go so far, such institutional measures also themselves push forward the deeper structural and cultural changes that need to happen.

There are a few arguments made against Black Lives Matter that need to be addressed, because they are themselves monstrous obstacles to progress and reconciliation.

The notion that Black Lives Matter has to say that every life matters is just imbecilic. It's a trite statement that no one disagrees with conceptually. There's simply no need to say that white lives matter, because there is no institutional threat to white lives as white lives. But there is such a threat to people of color, and almost every major social institution, from the media to the criminal justice system, routinely reiterates the notion that black lives in fact are problems to be contained or controlled.

Chainsaw Suit's fantastic strip.

A lack of specificity is the goblin of trite minds and of those who want to cheat you. "All lives matter" is a non-threatening slogan that suggests precisely no course of action. Worse, as Kris Straub points out humorously here, it's actually misleading and counter-productive to talk about everyone's problems as if they are all of equal magnitude at all times. We deal with specific problems at specific moments. The reason why all too many people say that #AllLivesMatter is because the status quo is generally fine for them, so dealing with the specific problems that produce the issues BLM is protesting is costly. That's fine: We're all stakeholders and we all have legitimate concerns about the consequences and direction of social change. But the notion of #AllLivesMatter is a disingenuous way to shut down conversation instead of starting it.

Even the fact that "All Lives Matter" emerged as a counter to #BlackLivesMatter is, when one thinks about it, so grotesque that it'd be hysterical if the consequences weren't so real. As Arthur Chu's fantastic tweet points out, "Do you crash strangers' funerals shouting I TOO HAVE FELT LOSS"? It's a funny notion to imagine someone doing that precisely because it's so absurd, cruel and stupid. A person doing that would have a psychopathic sense of entitlement and a deep, unabiding narcissism. Yet collectively, all too many people of all stripes feel that it's appropriate to respond to people expressing grief, heartache, rage and, yes, hope for improvement with the idea, "Well, we all have problems".

And those who offer this tripe are usually being colossal hypocrites as well. Imagine how the right wing would scream if those of us who want to regulate guns responded to gun rights advocates by saying, "Hey, it could be worse, you could live in North Korea" or "Hey, buddy, all rights matter".

Some have said that they'd rather have the statement be "Black Lives Matter Too". While I'm sympathetic, once again it's easy to see why it's such a toxic suggestion. No one should have to append "too" to a statement that they matter. Rhetorically, the notion that people have to say "black lives matter too" is a statement indicating, "White folks, and cops, matter by definition, first and foremost. You have to append your mattering afterwards. You do matter, sure, but you're the last people we mention. You're an afterthought". The fact that it is so difficult for so many people to just say, without any proviso, that black lives do in fact matter is precisely why BLM chose that slogan.

Similarly, the black-on-black crime argument isn't just an evasion, it's actually a colossal act of racism in and of itself.

Again: Imagine if this were used against any common conservative bugaboo. Imagine if the liberal response to the "War on Christmas" allegations weren't, "You have no special right to have your holiday dominate public spaces" but was instead "Hey, guys, as long as Christians are bombing people and torturing captives, you should expect that you get shut out of public spaces". Imagine if anyone complaining about affirmative action costing them their job was told, "You know, as long as white collar crime is disproportionately white, you should be glad you have a job".

It'd be monstrous to say those things. It's monstrous here.

A whole community cannot be judged by their criminals. The fact that some black individuals are guilty of crime is in fact no justification for naked black teenagers to be shot. There is no collective racial responsibility unless one is in fact not just a racist but the kind of venal racist that assumes that there's some kind of mystic connection between people who share some genes. Bringing up black-on-black crime in response to complaints of police brutality to the face of grieving mothers and tormented communities tells them, "Until you fix every problem in your neighborhood, I won't even listen to you".

Of course, the argument is stupid on many more levels, but just the colossal racism involved in asserting that argument alone should give any reasonable person pause. In reality, police brutality helps cause black-on-black crime. Criminals in minority communities are more able to get away with violence because their victims are much less likely to trust the police or want to cooperate with them. Moreover, when justice is arbitrary and random, actual criminals are able to plausibly claim that they're just being set up or facing the same injustices that other people have. An "us-versus-them" dynamic is why gangs tend to emerge. Organized crime overwhelmingly tends to come about when people can't rely on the ostensibly legitimate authorities to protect their turf, honor and respect them, and give them real opportunities. Organized crime acts as a de facto militia, government and underground economy all in one, as destructive as it is. Again, one only need to watch The Wire to see how poor police behavior helps push communities away into the kind of isolation, fear and desperation that breeds crime.

And, of course, men like Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and Barack Obama have all harshly criticized gang violence and criminality in black communities and have made many major efforts to try to resolve them. I have not met a single person anywhere in BLM or in groups that sympathize with and ally with BLM who don't say loudly that black-on-black crime is a serious problem.

oh, and another niggling little point: We don't pay the salaries of gang members. There's no collective social responsibility for the actions of criminals. There is for anyone who we employ as our civil servants. The fact that this tiny distinction has to be repeatedly pointed out shows just how deep the well of denial of racial animosity goes in this country.

But, of course, black-on-black crime is supposed to be something that the black community fixes. The very same people who claim that we're all in this together as Americans then want to cut their fellow Americans out to dry and not help. The causes of crime everywhere are complex, but we have decades of sociology about those causes, and poverty and community structure are the leading suspects. Crime isn't a black, white, Hispanic or Asian issue: it's an American issue. Resolving long-standing issues like failing infrastructure, poor employment prospects, a low minimum wage, segregated and failing schools, etc. is part of the picture of solving crime.

The black community and the white community aren't monoliths. There are specific neighborhoods, specific people and specific groups. Yes, we are all in this together, and yes, there are shared responsibilities that we all have. I've talked extensively about how white communities need to take some responsibility for the poison of racism. A huge part of that is that "With great power comes great responsibility", of course, but ultimately what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

But no movement toward justice should ever be forestalled because of another tangentially related problem. That's not how responsibility works.

Let's conclude by thinking again about Rodney King. Did the man lead police on a drunken car chase? Yes. That was a colossal mistake and a serious crime, and he deserved to be brought to justice and punished to the fullest extent of the law. But he didn't deserve to be beaten by hotheads. We don't want police officers cracking the skulls of unarmed men like, say, Henry Davis, a man in Ferguson who got put into jail because of a confusion about his identity.

In a democracy, we should never be afraid of our police. We are paying their paychecks. We should expect that they can execute justice calmly, compassionately and intelligently. If they can't, they don't deserve their job. If police are to (reasonably) expect that their sacrifices are honored, then they have to earn our respect with exemplary behavior. If the job matters, it has to be done right.

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100
User voted Negative.
1 vote
May 21, 2016

It's nothing more then a political movement, they don't care about black-on-black crime, the movement really doesn't have a leader or an agenda.

Basically it a chance to raise money, for what nobody seem to know, and get in the news, show that you "care". But don't you dare say all lives matter the movement is exclusionary, don't you dare say all lives are important. And don't say that maybe people should follow the law. But many in the BLM don't want all the laws enforced, but instead what to pick and choose what laws black should follow, after all he was "He was only selling a little weed." while at the same time complain that the police don't do enough, to enforce the law when something happen to them.

Really it a want-a-be movement with no real direction, no focus, and no plan.

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User voted Positive.
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Jul 12, 2016

Saying that #BLM doesn't care about black on black crime is like saying that a civil libertarian doesn't care about domestic abuse. They're not related issues. There's no amount of crime that justifies police shooting unarmed suspects or treating innocent people like they're an occupied population. The very fact that you reflexively associated the two separate issues is a huge problem; the fact that so many people fail to realize that police overreach is actually a cause of crime in poor and minority communities is far worse.

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User voted Negative.
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Jul 17, 2016

If BLM then wouldn't it make since to take on the biggest threat to black lives? From 2009-2012 on average 120 black are killed by the police each year, both justified and unjustified, while on average 4,472 blacks are killed by blacks each year. So in about 37 years the police will have kill almost as many blacks as blacks killed by other blacks in ONE year. And while it true that black commit more murders than whites they are also more likely to kill other blacks. White tend to kill more whites. When you look at the crime stats, in general people rob, kill, etc people of their same race.

"There's no amount of crime that justifies police shooting unarmed suspects or treating innocent people like they're an occupied population. "

As you'll see in the videos I linked too, Rev. Jarrett Maupin who led a BLM protest, "shot" an unarmed person. Had it been real and the Rev. Maupin had been white and the suspect been black odds are there would have been protests.

As far as treating innocent people like they're an occupied population. Crime tends to be located in poorer neighborhoods, now there are many reasons for this which I won't get into at this time, that means the police have two choices, ignore that area of town, or increase the police presence. In the first case the police will get accused of ignoring crime that happens to the poor minorities, in the second they get accused of targeting the poor minorities. A lose, lose for the police. Do they take the broken window theory too far, maybe, but at what point do you draw the line? What crime is too small? A little weed, shoplifting, etc, at some point you must enforce the law.

"... police overreach is actually a cause of crime in poor and minority communities is far worse."

So the police are forcing people to commit crimes? How so? Are they forcing people to carry drugs, guns, steal cars, etc?

If you want to stop people from getting shot, do what the NAACP says you should do, obey the police and sort it out later. Do they say, don't resist, and the odds of you getting shot goes way down. Of course you could just obey the law and the odds of you having an interaction with the police goes way down.

Look at the case of Walter Scott, the man was clearly shot illegally by the police, but if he had complied with the police officer, what are the odds he would have been shot?

Don't think I'm giving the police a free pass, I have said that if an officer breaks the law while on duty, the penalty should be DOUBLED automatically, we give them the benefit of doubt, we give them a lot of power and the penalty for abusing that power should be severe. The officer in the Walter Scott case Michael Slager should have been looking at 60 years to life not 30 to life .

webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:DqQNfjf4...us&client=safari

youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_2648257505&...-g&v=b5PuLeR7Wt8

Full video

youtube.com/watch?v=yfi3Ndh3n-g

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User voted Positive.
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Jul 17, 2016

By that logic, should the Tea Party shut up until we've stopped workplace casualties, which kill 50,000 a year, or until we've conquered heart disease and cancer? By your logic, all of our activism has to be in a direct line about the number of casualties. That's a ludicrous assertion. Black Lives Matter is making the simple point that we don't pay the salaries of gang members. When the government is doing something that is violent, dangerous or corrupt, we have a collective responsibility to deal with it that is immediate, and that kind of officially sanctioned violence does immense damage to a community.

Frankly, no one believes this tripe. Not you, not anyone else. No one believes that you can't complain if there's a bigger problem out there, or demand a change that is important. The Tea Party doesn't, the Republicans don't.

When The Young Turks' producer JR looked up resources in Chicago, he found more than 40 about crime in the city. These resources are out there and they precede BLM.

Even worse, police brutality is part of the black-on-black crime problem. The anti-snitching norm is there for a reason: mistrust of the police and of the state. As long as people are afraid to turn to the cops, criminals run free. Insofar as the issues

>As you'll see in the videos I linked too, Rev. Jarrett Maupin who led a BLM protest, "shot" an unarmed person. Had it been real and the Rev. Maupin had been white and the suspect been black odds are there would have been protests.

If Rev. Maupin was white, everyone would have accepted his claim that, “I felt that was an imminent threat – I didn’t necessarily see him armed but he came clearly to do some harm to the officer – to my person.” And Maupin's participation in the study actually proves the point: on the third time, he didn't shoot. So what everyone is asking for is, guess what, more training. No one is denying that if you take untrained or poorly trained people and drop them into a complex situation that their racial biases and other factors won't make them make bad decisions: that is precisely our argument.

>As far as treating innocent people like they're an occupied population. Crime tends to be located in poorer neighborhoods, now there are many reasons for this which I won't get into at this time, that means the police have two choices, ignore that area of town, or increase the police presence. In the first case the police will get accused of ignoring crime that happens to the poor minorities, in the second they get accused of targeting the poor minorities. A lose, lose for the police. Do they take the broken window theory too far, maybe, but at what point do you draw the line? What crime is too small? A little weed, shoplifting, etc, at some point you must enforce the law.

Depends on what kind of crime you're talking about. Whites consistently disproportionately commit DUIs, which are a way bigger driver of deaths than homicide. And white collar crime is disproportionately white. Why aren't SEC agents treating Wall Street like an occupied street? Right, white privilege.

No one is saying we shouldn't enforce the law. We're saying you shouldn't treat communities as criminals for the actions of criminals. Again, this is reflexively understood until we come to poor black communities.

>So the police are forcing people to commit crimes? How so? Are they forcing people to carry drugs, guns, steal cars, etc?

So BLM protesters are forcing people to commit crimes? How so? Are they forcing people to carry drugs, guns, steal cars, etc?

See how your arguments are fundamentally contradictory and indeed hypocritical?

If the black community indirectly shares responsibility for crime by, say, not reporting it or not having good enough community watches or not protesting it enough or what not, then cops share indirect responsibility by making it so that criminals can pose as abused and muddying the waters within the community. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, right?

>If you want to stop people from getting shot, do what the NAACP says you should do, obey the police and sort it out later. Do they say, don't resist, and the odds of you getting shot goes way down. Of course you could just obey the law and the odds of you having an interaction with the police goes way down.
>Look at the case of Walter Scott, the man was clearly shot illegally by the police, but if he had complied with the police officer, what are the odds he would have been shot?

Yeah, funny story about that: Remember the case of Henry Davis, who was confused for another man and beaten when he was complying, enough so that he won a case against the department (though the judge didn't view it as a violation of his Constitutional rights that he was nearly killed); or the case of Lavish Reynolds, where he told the officer that he had a gun, complied, and was shot; or Philando Castile; or how about the numerous cases where a man was told to get his driver's license and was shot for it?

Officers virtually never even get past the grand jury even in cases that would be slamdunks in any other arena. Sounds like you should be on BLM's side here.

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User voted Negative.
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Jul 17, 2016

“By that logic, should the Tea Party shut up until ….”

The tea party called for a reduction of the U.S. national debt and federal budget deficit by reducing government spending, and for lower taxes. They aren’t saying we need to save workers, nor are they saying white hearts matter. The black lives demands include swift and transparent legal investigation of all police shootings of BLACK people; official governmental tracking of the number of citizens killed by police, disaggregated by race; the demilitarization of local police forces; and community accountability mechanisms for rogue police officers.

First the statement is racist, wouldn’t it be better to say police should be investigated whenever there is a shooting? No matter what color the person happened to be, or don’t Latino lives matter, or Native live matter?

Replace black with white and you’d say it was racist, and many people already have, and don’t you dare say ALL lives matter. IF you want police accountability, then why call for it to be separate it by race? Yes in terms of percentage of the population black are more likely to be killed, but blacks also commit more crime in the same terms. Black make up 12.3% of the population and are responsible for 28.3% of crime, while whites make up 63% of the population and are responsible for 68.9.

ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-20.../tables/table-43

theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the...ings-us-database

The guardian claims 1146 people were killed by the police, if you go by the population that would mean you’d expect 140 black to be killed by the police and 721 whites. The numbers they report are 306 blacks, and 581 white, when you look at the percentage from the crime stats, you come up with 324 black and 789 whites for ALL crimes. When you look at violent crime, again from the FBI, black are responsible for 53.3% and whites 44.8% so wouldn’t you expect you’d see more black deaths then white?

“If Rev. Maupin was white, everyone would have accepted his claim that, ….”

You missed the point Rev. Maupin was JUSTIFIED in “shooting” an unarmed person, just because he’s unarmed doesn’t mean he’s not a threat.

“Depends on what kind of crime you're talking about. …”

It’s the difference between violent and non-violent crime, see FBI stats. That more than accounts for the difference, white collar crime is generally non-violent so the police response doesn’t need to be violent.

“So BLM protesters are forcing people to commit crimes?...”

I never made a statement where I said BLM were causing crime; you stated the police overreach is.

You stated “…police overreach is actually a cause of crime in poor and minority communities is far worse.”

I wanted you to state what the police were doing to CAUSE crime?

“If the black community indirectly shares responsibility for crime by, say,..”

If BLM really wanted to make a difference then they WOULD organize community watches, turn in drug dealers, report crimes, work WITH the police, but that takes time and effort, and like many movements their “protests” never address the problem, they want the airtime, money, etc, but almost never want to do the work to solve the problem.

Look at the Guardian Angels, even though that group had some problems, the BLM could easily start a group to look after THEIR neighbors, friends. Film everything, the good the bad the ugly, team up with ministers, civic groups, to help people improve their lives. Cut back the NEED for the police by cleaning up the neighborhood.

“Officers virtually never even get past the grand jury even in cases that would be …”

I have read the BLM said and agree there should be more police over site, there should be an independent body whose only job it is to prosecute bad cops. To investigate EVERY shooting, and every use of force complaint, against ALL people not just blacks, a bad cop is a bad cop no matter who they happen to be going after. And the police should be required to wear camera, as they do in my town, and turning them off should result in immediate termination.

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User voted Positive.
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Jul 22, 2016

>The tea party called for a reduction of the U.S. national debt and federal budget deficit by reducing government spending, and for lower taxes. They aren’t saying we need to save workers, nor are they saying white hearts matter.

First of all, so what? They're just as unrelated of issues. Frankly, these are actually MORE closely related. OSHA's inability to enforce worker safety and the anti-regulation fervor of that wing of the Republicans DIRECTLY impacts heart disease and worker safety. They are ACTIVELY taking away from the ability of the society to stop workplace-related injuries and heart disease.

The point is that saying that you can't complain about X as long as there's a worse Y is something absolutely no one believes.

Second of all, you're flat-out misrepresenting the Tea Party. They came about as a result of the Affordable Care Act, and they weren't talking about the deficits: they were saying they wanted small government, period.

Finally: The Tea Party straight up doesn't talk about military waste or corporate subsidies. So it's an ideal example of direct hypocrisy. So if the Tea Party were honest the way BLM is and said, "Look, we really think that the ACA is uniquely bad; yes, corporate subsidies are bad, but we'll get to that, this isn't what the movement is about", would you support that? The difference, of course, is that this unmasks their hypocrisy, while BLM is making the case that police brutality is a barrier to resolving black-on-black crime. And since BLM supporters like Jackson and Sharpton ARE against black-on-black crime, AND since again the difference is that the Tea Party controls their advocacy but black folks don't control criminals (practically by definition), it's FAR more fair to hold the Tea Party to my standard than to hold BLM to yours!

> The black lives demands include swift and transparent legal investigation of all police shootings of BLACK people; official governmental tracking of the number of citizens killed by police, disaggregated by race; the demilitarization of local police forces; and community accountability mechanisms for rogue police officers.

Quote me anyone who says that. BLM has never publicly said that transparency should only be there for black folks. They've pushed for reforms to make the police less violent generally. The Young Turks reports on white suspects who get shot all the time.

>First the statement is racist, wouldn’t it be better to say police should be investigated whenever there is a shooting? No matter what color the person happened to be, or don’t Latino lives matter, or Native live matter?

No, because the issue isn't just police brutality, and the fact that you don't seem to comprehend that is exactly why the movement exists.

People of color, by and large, don't view their mistreatment by police as being somehow separate from the way they are polluted on, or the media reports on them as criminals and monsters, or the way employers treat them.

Black Lives Matter is precisely about getting a society that they perceive, rightly, as not being able to recognize black lives as being something worth defending, protecting and standing up for to do so. It's not just about the cops: when it comes to that, BLM supporters say that cops should stop hurting people in general. It's about how black lives, specifically, face collective denigration.

The fact that people are uncomfortable about that message is exactly why the movement exists. The fact that people struggle so much to say "Black lives matter", full stop, without appending "too" or "but", is exactly why the movement exists.

>The guardian claims 1146 people were killed by the police, if you go by the population that would mean you’d expect 140 black to be killed by the police and 721 whites. The numbers they report are 306 blacks, and 581 white, when you look at the percentage from the crime stats, you come up with 324 black and 789 whites for ALL crimes. When you look at violent crime, again from the FBI, black are responsible for 53.3% and whites 44.8% so wouldn’t you expect you’d see more black deaths then white?

You'd expect that if you didn't know that cops shoot black suspects who weren't in the process of committing a crime. Since they do, the percentage of blacks in the criminal population is irrelevant.

Meanwhile, if you take the proper metrics and compare unarmed suspects or washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/07/11/aren...rm=.a4032980ff48 . Young unarmed black men are MORE likely to die at the hand of cops than young unarmed white men.

And we don't have to look at aggregate stats either. We're not just inferring bias from statistics: the social psychology literature unambiguously confirms that stereotypes impact the way cops do their job.

>You missed the point Rev. Maupin was JUSTIFIED in “shooting” an unarmed person, just because he’s unarmed doesn’t mean he’s not a threat.

No he wasn't. That was a failure on the test, and on the third time, he didn't make that mistake. Indeed, your misunderstanding of that test and that dynamic is a microcosm of the entire issue: if the cops were more trained, they wouldn't be misidentifying dangers as often, which means that it is, by definition, incompetent cops that are to blame, not suspects or communities. We're not demanding superhuman capability from cops: we're demanding enough training that a Reverend can go through it! When cops fight that and fail to implement that, that's their fault, and the level of crime in communities is irrelevant buck-passing.

>It’s the difference between violent and non-violent crime, see FBI stats. That more than accounts for the difference, white collar crime is generally non-violent so the police response doesn’t need to be violent.

That's flat-out false. It is simply not the case that suspects are only killed in suspicion of violent crime. Henry Davis was MISIDENTIFIED as someone else and got his head smashed in. Routine traffic stops end in shootings; so do someone being stopped for selling loose cigarettes. So when it comes to non-violent black criminals, they get killed, and yet non-violent white criminals committing objectively far worse crimes do.

Moreover, it's not just that white collar crime and white drug use and DUIs don't lead to whites getting shot. It's that they don't lead to ANYTHING. White collar criminals get away with their crimes to overwhelming degrees. Whites and blacks use drugs at roughly the same rates and yet blacks are far overrepresented in prison and jail. You can't separate that out from the brutality issue, because the whole point is the comprehensive discrimination in the criminal justice system that treats blacks like they're second-class citizens, like they don't matter and can be killed and locked up for non-violent crimes.

>I never made a statement where I said BLM were causing crime; you stated the police overreach is.

Yet you hold BLM accountable for black-on-black crime. That's literally the only way that the idea that black-on-black crime is relevant is remarkably coherent.

More importantly, the key point is that the cops don't have to outright cause crime to make the problem worse. No one in their right mind would say that mortgage companies that discriminate armed criminals, and yet they contribute to the problem too by worsening community status and harming neighborhood social structure. If there's a collective community responsibility for crime, then the police, legislators, businesspeople, and others who created an environment where crime would thrive are guilty too. If they're not guilty, then BLM has zero responsibility to do ANYTHING about black-on-black crime: it's not their fault, so they get to protest all they want.

>If BLM really wanted to make a difference then they WOULD organize community watches, turn in drug dealers, report crimes, work WITH the police, but that takes time and effort, and like many movements their “protests” never address the problem, they want the airtime, money, etc, but almost never want to do the work to solve the problem.

First of all; Flat out false. BLM and associated movements have done countless police outreach and community building initiatives. They build safe spaces for communities to speak.

Second of all: How about they put pressure on the cops to stop killing people, politicians and civilian leaders to stop failing, etc.? You're presupposing a tactic for a movement to try, and since you don't seem to be part of that movement or that community, you're speaking from a fundamental place of ignorance, acting as if you know their experiences better than they do so you know what they should do better than they do. What they do objectively takes hard work. It objectively takes time to do outreach, to raise consciousness, and to protest. And anyone who knows the history of this country knows that it takes those things to change the system.

Finally: People tried that. For decades. Authorities didn't care. White communities didn't care. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Now it's an issue that's being discussed and acknowledged. That's a gigantic win.

>Look at the Guardian Angels, even though that group had some problems, the BLM could easily start a group to look after THEIR neighbors, friends. Film everything, the good the bad the ugly, team up with ministers, civic groups, to help people improve their lives. Cut back the NEED for the police by cleaning up the neighborhood.

"Some problems" like being bigoted thugs? Yeah, see, the reason why the Guardian Angels could do what they did is that they were doing something the authorities and the public liked. It's not a coincidence that Silva ended up being a bigoted thug and having the cops like him, see. But even as crime went down, cops kept brutalizing black communities. So at what point do people like you admit that the cops need to stop what they're doing? At what point is cooperating with the cops cooperating with your tormentors?

Again, Chicago alone had 40 resources to do all the things you've discussed, and BLM members are part of all those movements.

>I have read the BLM said and agree there should be more police over site, there should be an independent body whose only job it is to prosecute bad cops. To investigate EVERY shooting, and every use of force complaint, against ALL people not just blacks, a bad cop is a bad cop no matter who they happen to be going after. And the police should be required to wear camera, as they do in my town, and turning them off should result in immediate termination.

And the only reason most people are even having this conversation is because BLM raised it in the first place.

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User voted Negative.
0 votes,
Jul 23, 2016

I had a long post going point by point, but decided not to do so as 1. I don’t think you’re listening, 2. You’ve made up your mind. And 3 you have some facts wrong.

The tea party started before the ACA, and the military and corporate cuts were in fact discussed, and the tea party was more than willing to cut both.

You wanted a quote so here it is.

From blacklivesmatter.com

“Those demands include swift and transparent legal investigation of all police shootings of black people; official governmental tracking of the number of citizens killed by police, disaggregated by race; the demilitarization of local police forces; and community accountability mechanisms for rogue police officers. “

You missed the point on the stats. Many in the BLM have pointed out that blacks are killed in a larger proportion than what percentage of blacks that makes up the population. In which case you’d expect X% of people killed to be black, white, NA, but when you look at the crime rates then you get closer to the number of deaths.

And yes Rev. Maupin was justified when he shot, the “suspect” didn’t follow order, was aggressively approaching him. Or do you contend he should have waited until he as assaulted? When a person gets hit, it's not like you see it on TV odds are you’re not getting up right away. At what point do you think he should have shot?

And NOTHING happens to whites for a DUI, or other crimes? I want to see any proof of that. I guess nobody told Andrew Thomas that he really wasn’t shot.

I could go on and on point by point. But if you live in an area with higher crime, the police are going to pay more attention to that area, so there are going to be more arrest, and if said area happen to have a lot of minorities you’re going to have more minorities arrested. Whereas if you happen to live in the suburb’s or a rural area with a lower crime rate and fewer police you’re going to have fewer arrests. Of course the police could just not patrol the area and there would be fewer arrest of minorities police problem solved. Again what laws do you want to the police to enforce.

Despite their problems, the Guardian Angels showed how to do patrols without the police, and it’s how you hold the police accountable, you video everything, you make SURE your people don’t have weapons, make SURE they obey the law, and if the police are doing something wrong, show the world, if they are doing something right show the world. Will it be easy, no, if it were easy everyone would be doing it.

I found it funny when you posted the link where you said BLM and associated movements have done countless police outreach and community building initiatives. “Do not: bring any weapons or anything illegal. Do not come high or belligerent ... We don’t need any HOT HEADS or anyone there for the wrong reasons… We will stand as we are, UNIFIED. I’m calling ALL GANGS, ALL RACES, ALL GROWN MEN affiliated or not & we will stand UNIFIED.”

Your link wasn’t an outreach it was a protest.

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